Actually, I, as a Christian, have no need to judge non-christians, according to the Bible (at least in the sense you imply here).
John 3:16-19
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Now, that does not mean I cannot see that sinful behavior is sinful, it means that I need not condemn unsaved people, because they are already condemned by their own behavior. Unsaved people act like unsaved people. ‘Christians’ need to clean up their own house, and stop allowing supposedly ’saved’ people to act like unsaved people without comment.
“Twist not Scripture, lest ye be like the Devil” – - Paul Washer (meant with humor)
There are two (at least) meanings of judge. One is “to discern or evaluate” and the other is “to condemn”. The Bible says often to discern about people before making close friendships, or marriages, or business dealings; discernment is good. Condemn would be a better translation.
Looking at the verse in context of the ….”sawdust-in-the-eye” parable, this means not to be hypocritical. If you’re going to point out someone else’s problems or guilt, you should remedy the situation in your own life before trying to fix every one else.
George Takei is gay and Lev 18 and several other Bible verses are …. let’s just say, anti-gay. To say that a gay man is (would be) going to hell is not needed. All sinners, not just homosexuals would go to hell if it weren’t for God taking the punishment for our sin. And since no mortal has lived a perfect life in thought, word, and deed, that means everybody would be …. in big trouble.
Fortunately, the Passover Lamb of God was slain. In the Cross, there is both Mercy and Justice. Justice in that evil and sin is punished, and Mercy in that we can have a right standing with God.
While we yet live we can accept payment for something that we can’t possibly earn. We must live for Him, and not ourselves.
Well, in fact there are two places where it says a man shouldn’t lie with a man the lyings of a woman, one of which is the leviticus you quote.
However, as a matter of fact, there are quite a number of other places in the Hebrew scriptures which prohibit things that Christians do all the time. Such as eating shrimp and cheeseburgers, both of which are vilified in the exact same language as is used for lying with a man as with a woman ( the Hebrew is “mishkavei ishi” which is far from clear, to the extent that the rabbis say that in fact what is actually being spoken of here is an “Androgynous” the term for a person who has both sets of sexual equipment).
In any case, I’ll take chrisitans who go on about homosexuality seriously as soon as they start keeping kosher, observe shabbat properly (On saturday, not driving a car – which lights a fire – expressly prohibited- or handling money, or a number of other prohibitions which I don’t notice many Christians adhering to).
Oh, yes there’s also that bit about one undivided God and also about listening to prophets who advise one to turn away from the commandments – such as keeping kosher and the sabbath– Biblically a bit of a problem for Christians which is why the early church tried to divest itself of the Hebrew Scriptures and focus entirely on the Greek Scriptures.
When Christians start taking that seriously, then we can open the discussion.
Actually, this argument is spurious. The New Testament also talks about homosexuality being aberrant behavior, and sets aside the dietary laws. But then God also sees any sex outside of marriage as just as sinful – Personally, I consider homosexuality as no more a ’sin’ than lying or any number of other things.
Besides, from a purely ’scientific’ view, homosexuality IS aberrant – if practiced by the species as a whole it would lead to the destruction of the species. Despite all the propaganda to the contrary, homosexual; relationships are in no sense ‘normal’. And I don’t buy the idea that it is genetic, either.
Before the onset of AIDS, suicide was the #1 cause of death among homosexual males. Lesbians are almost without exception victims of molestation or rape. I have known a lot of gays and I will say that – WITHOUT EXCEPTION – they are NOT gay in the old sense: happy, that is. And the most strident gay-rights advocates are the worst.
As an aside, I must agree with another post I read around here somewhere that most of the strident, rabid anti-gays have their own gay issues to deal with. I have noticed the same with anti -porn, resulting in major hypocrisy in the name of Jesus. I don’t approve of either practice (porn or gay), but as is pointed out elsewhere Jesus said to clean up your own act before trying to advise others.
I love the way you automatically prejudge me, then accuse me of prejudging. Because I obviously believe in God, Jesus and the Bible, you assume – wrongly – that I hate homosexuals and you resort to ad hominem attack. The idea that there are absolute standards of right and wrong that you have violated – everyone does – is very scary for some people and it sends them right into denial.
It’s ‘wrongness’ isn’t a myth, just because you say it is. Your decision that there is no ‘evil’ is a myth. Some people – like serial killers – are evil.
I do not believe homosexuals are ‘evil’ even though I believe they are wrong – just very sad and very warped. But I have news for you – I feel the same about promiscuous heterosexuals.
I judge on both facts and my own personal experience. I have gay friends – without exception they were miserable most of the time – or suicidal.
I have no ‘phobia’ about homosexuals. I wouldn’t leave them alone my son – as statistics prove that many are pedophiles – but then I won’t let using drug addicts near my son either. Nor will I let him ride in a car with an intoxicated driver. Phobia? No. Just good sense.
Besides, in a purely technical sense “Homophobia” would be ‘fear of man’ – not homosexuals.
To clarify: All of mankind is infected with sin – which is evil in God’s sight. Me, you, anyone else. Being homosexual is just another manifestation of the general ‘fallenness’ of mankind. It is a universal disease. The only difference between you or George Takei and me, Rhamphoryncus, is that I know I’m sick and have chosen to take advantage of the cure and follow the Great Physician’s treatment program.
BTW – I love the original Star Trek and George Takei is a talented actor. I also love LOTR – but Sir Ian Murray McKellen is just as wrong as George.
If “all” of your gay friends are depressed and suicidal maybe you should stop bothering the nice people here and go have a chat with them? Just leave the gay talk behind since they need cheering not condemnation.
It wasn’t my views that made them that way, nor was it ’society’ – it was their own behavior and lifestyle choices. They got that way all on their own. I give them the solution, and hope, if they choose to reach out for it. People DO change, you know – they CAN walk away from homosexuality, despite the claims to the contrary. I have known some who did.
BTW – if you want to see hatred and prejudice, look at how the ‘gay rights’ community treats those who DO change and walk away. But you don’t hear any public outcry over them losing jobs, being harassed and even physically assaulted, do you??
The militant gays want people to believe that they are born gay – but every male homosexual I have asked – EVERY ONE – has been ‘introduced’ to homosexuality by an older male homosexual – usually while they were minors. Females were universally abused by males – usually sexually. Now, maybe this is so just in my little part of the world, but I really don’t think so.
I have as much right to express myself here as you do, and I haven’t told anyone to ‘go away’ either. Nor have I resorted to name calling. I don’t say what I do because I hate homosexuals – I see little difference between George Takei, Amy Winehouse or Brittney Spears, in terms of bad choices.
You don’t have to read my comments. I manage to ignore certain people on here just fine. If what I say ‘bothers’ you perhaps you need to consider it more closely.
take your homophobic sewage somewhere else. oh, and btw, if you do believe in hell maybe you should repent of your judgemental attitude lest you join him there.
Its also a sin to wear wool and linen at the same time. Leviticus 19:19
Strangely enough He’s OK with selling daughters into sexual servitude and thinks that disobedient sons should be stoned to death. And don’t even get started on the shrimp, God HATES the shrimp.
The shrimp along with shellfish and pigs are unclean animals….they eat whatever is in front of them. For the health of the people of Israel, these laws were made. This was part of protecting Israel so that Messiah could come.
In Leviticus 19, we see several laws about not mixing. Not mixing with another man’s woman, not mixing crops, not mixing clothing. Clothing is often a symbol of righteousness… which comes from God. The wool/ linen thing is another way of saying don’t commit idolatry…. don’t worship other gods.
Just wondering if Chicken is ok with the bible and god? If so ya definitely got a problem. Chicken are cannibals, in case they are unaware. And most scaled fish are poo eaters. Most sharks will by experimenting bite almost anything in front of them. These are all verifiable things btw. Cattle eat, swallow, then later regurgitate their food to chew again, called cud. Um, let me thinks, Snakes….there is a whole can or worms to open up. To say it simply the Bible contradicts itself constantly, and is the work of man.
NO it’s not. The Hebrew Scriptures there at least are perfectly clear. Don’t mix wool and linen. Also don’t mix an ass and an ox when plowing. Don’t mix different kinds of crops when planting. Nothing to do with idolatry at all.
And the Scriptures are not giving health advice – to the contrary. The rabbis say we are commanded these commandments in order that we say ” It is fine to eat these things, but what can I do? My Creator has commanded me, and I must refrain.”
SO why aren’t you refraining. Surely that’s no more difficult than rfraining from having sexual relations with the kind of person you love – after all most people out there eat all kinds of food, there must be something kosher you like to eat.
hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.
vxjpjevxvihtjgrvidyceotavjyvkzbescdhello
In one of the episodes, you can actually hear him tell another character he’s gay as they walked off the screen (this was back when those kinds of things weren’t really accepted, he could’ve been fired). I’d have to talk to my Star Trek junkie friend again to find out the details, though… I think it was right after the other guy made a comment resembling “I’d bone that” about two attractive female aliens or something…
Firsties
What is the point of this?
I LOVE IT.
set phasers to stunning
Warp factor ten.
No, warm 9.9998. If you go to Warp 10, you turn into a salamander.
*warp.
Not warm. Though I have heard Plasma is rather warm.
And have offspring with your captain. Uhhhh… not fabulous. D:
Best. Caption. Ever. George Takei is the best!
You’re not wrong!
He’s thooper!
Starfleet says “Don’t ask, don’t tell.”
He has boldly come, where many men have come before. .
THat’s hysterical, brewski!
Set phasers to “I love this guy!”
LICD? “that’s when I tried to buy the horse a prostitute.”
“Oh My!”
May he forever burn in hell.
He would burn fabulously!
Think of all the colors!
hahahahahahahahhaha. lol. win
Comment win <3
Isn’t judging other people also a sin? “Judge not, lest ye be judged”? Enjoy the heat!
Only if you’re not Christian.
People who judge Christians are evil. Christians who judge are just following the Bible.
Double standards much?!
^ actually a lie.
Actually, I, as a Christian, have no need to judge non-christians, according to the Bible (at least in the sense you imply here).
John 3:16-19
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Now, that does not mean I cannot see that sinful behavior is sinful, it means that I need not condemn unsaved people, because they are already condemned by their own behavior. Unsaved people act like unsaved people. ‘Christians’ need to clean up their own house, and stop allowing supposedly ’saved’ people to act like unsaved people without comment.
“Twist not Scripture, lest ye be like the Devil” – - Paul Washer (meant with humor)
There are two (at least) meanings of judge. One is “to discern or evaluate” and the other is “to condemn”. The Bible says often to discern about people before making close friendships, or marriages, or business dealings; discernment is good. Condemn would be a better translation.
Looking at the verse in context of the ….”sawdust-in-the-eye” parable, this means not to be hypocritical. If you’re going to point out someone else’s problems or guilt, you should remedy the situation in your own life before trying to fix every one else.
George Takei is gay and Lev 18 and several other Bible verses are …. let’s just say, anti-gay. To say that a gay man is (would be) going to hell is not needed. All sinners, not just homosexuals would go to hell if it weren’t for God taking the punishment for our sin. And since no mortal has lived a perfect life in thought, word, and deed, that means everybody would be …. in big trouble.
Fortunately, the Passover Lamb of God was slain. In the Cross, there is both Mercy and Justice. Justice in that evil and sin is punished, and Mercy in that we can have a right standing with God.
While we yet live we can accept payment for something that we can’t possibly earn. We must live for Him, and not ourselves.
Sooooo many people misquote that verse. Prober61, you may be the first non-preacher I’ve heard to actually use that verse right.
Well, in fact there are two places where it says a man shouldn’t lie with a man the lyings of a woman, one of which is the leviticus you quote.
However, as a matter of fact, there are quite a number of other places in the Hebrew scriptures which prohibit things that Christians do all the time. Such as eating shrimp and cheeseburgers, both of which are vilified in the exact same language as is used for lying with a man as with a woman ( the Hebrew is “mishkavei ishi” which is far from clear, to the extent that the rabbis say that in fact what is actually being spoken of here is an “Androgynous” the term for a person who has both sets of sexual equipment).
In any case, I’ll take chrisitans who go on about homosexuality seriously as soon as they start keeping kosher, observe shabbat properly (On saturday, not driving a car – which lights a fire – expressly prohibited- or handling money, or a number of other prohibitions which I don’t notice many Christians adhering to).
Oh, yes there’s also that bit about one undivided God and also about listening to prophets who advise one to turn away from the commandments – such as keeping kosher and the sabbath– Biblically a bit of a problem for Christians which is why the early church tried to divest itself of the Hebrew Scriptures and focus entirely on the Greek Scriptures.
When Christians start taking that seriously, then we can open the discussion.
Actually, this argument is spurious. The New Testament also talks about homosexuality being aberrant behavior, and sets aside the dietary laws. But then God also sees any sex outside of marriage as just as sinful – Personally, I consider homosexuality as no more a ’sin’ than lying or any number of other things.
Besides, from a purely ’scientific’ view, homosexuality IS aberrant – if practiced by the species as a whole it would lead to the destruction of the species. Despite all the propaganda to the contrary, homosexual; relationships are in no sense ‘normal’. And I don’t buy the idea that it is genetic, either.
Before the onset of AIDS, suicide was the #1 cause of death among homosexual males. Lesbians are almost without exception victims of molestation or rape. I have known a lot of gays and I will say that – WITHOUT EXCEPTION – they are NOT gay in the old sense: happy, that is. And the most strident gay-rights advocates are the worst.
As an aside, I must agree with another post I read around here somewhere that most of the strident, rabid anti-gays have their own gay issues to deal with. I have noticed the same with anti -porn, resulting in major hypocrisy in the name of Jesus. I don’t approve of either practice (porn or gay), but as is pointed out elsewhere Jesus said to clean up your own act before trying to advise others.
BTW – don’t try to tell me I hate gays or call me a homophobe. They don’t incite me to either hatred or fear – they just make me very, very sad.
Oh, and congratulations to George and Brad! Don’t want to get sidetracked here.
I love the way you automatically prejudge me, then accuse me of prejudging. Because I obviously believe in God, Jesus and the Bible, you assume – wrongly – that I hate homosexuals and you resort to ad hominem attack. The idea that there are absolute standards of right and wrong that you have violated – everyone does – is very scary for some people and it sends them right into denial.
It’s ‘wrongness’ isn’t a myth, just because you say it is. Your decision that there is no ‘evil’ is a myth. Some people – like serial killers – are evil.
I do not believe homosexuals are ‘evil’ even though I believe they are wrong – just very sad and very warped. But I have news for you – I feel the same about promiscuous heterosexuals.
I judge on both facts and my own personal experience. I have gay friends – without exception they were miserable most of the time – or suicidal.
I have no ‘phobia’ about homosexuals. I wouldn’t leave them alone my son – as statistics prove that many are pedophiles – but then I won’t let using drug addicts near my son either. Nor will I let him ride in a car with an intoxicated driver. Phobia? No. Just good sense.
Besides, in a purely technical sense “Homophobia” would be ‘fear of man’ – not homosexuals.
To clarify: All of mankind is infected with sin – which is evil in God’s sight. Me, you, anyone else. Being homosexual is just another manifestation of the general ‘fallenness’ of mankind. It is a universal disease. The only difference between you or George Takei and me, Rhamphoryncus, is that I know I’m sick and have chosen to take advantage of the cure and follow the Great Physician’s treatment program.
BTW – I love the original Star Trek and George Takei is a talented actor. I also love LOTR – but Sir Ian Murray McKellen is just as wrong as George.
If “all” of your gay friends are depressed and suicidal maybe you should stop bothering the nice people here and go have a chat with them? Just leave the gay talk behind since they need cheering not condemnation.
It wasn’t my views that made them that way, nor was it ’society’ – it was their own behavior and lifestyle choices. They got that way all on their own. I give them the solution, and hope, if they choose to reach out for it. People DO change, you know – they CAN walk away from homosexuality, despite the claims to the contrary. I have known some who did.
BTW – if you want to see hatred and prejudice, look at how the ‘gay rights’ community treats those who DO change and walk away. But you don’t hear any public outcry over them losing jobs, being harassed and even physically assaulted, do you??
The militant gays want people to believe that they are born gay – but every male homosexual I have asked – EVERY ONE – has been ‘introduced’ to homosexuality by an older male homosexual – usually while they were minors. Females were universally abused by males – usually sexually. Now, maybe this is so just in my little part of the world, but I really don’t think so.
I have as much right to express myself here as you do, and I haven’t told anyone to ‘go away’ either. Nor have I resorted to name calling. I don’t say what I do because I hate homosexuals – I see little difference between George Takei, Amy Winehouse or Brittney Spears, in terms of bad choices.
You don’t have to read my comments. I manage to ignore certain people on here just fine. If what I say ‘bothers’ you perhaps you need to consider it more closely.
Hell is a little busy at the moment, but thanks for the input.
well aren’t you just a little ray of sunshine.
take your homophobic sewage somewhere else. oh, and btw, if you do believe in hell maybe you should repent of your judgemental attitude lest you join him there.
You first.
I mean to “it’s a sin”
Its also a sin to wear wool and linen at the same time. Leviticus 19:19
Strangely enough He’s OK with selling daughters into sexual servitude and thinks that disobedient sons should be stoned to death. And don’t even get started on the shrimp, God HATES the shrimp.
By the sounds of your first sentence, God would have loved Queer eye for the straight guy!!
George Takei doesn’t believe all that does he?!? He seemed like such a nice gay. I meant to say “guy”. He’s a nice guy.
MEEKRAB!!!!
The shrimp along with shellfish and pigs are unclean animals….they eat whatever is in front of them. For the health of the people of Israel, these laws were made. This was part of protecting Israel so that Messiah could come.
In Leviticus 19, we see several laws about not mixing. Not mixing with another man’s woman, not mixing crops, not mixing clothing. Clothing is often a symbol of righteousness… which comes from God. The wool/ linen thing is another way of saying don’t commit idolatry…. don’t worship other gods.
Just wondering if Chicken is ok with the bible and god? If so ya definitely got a problem. Chicken are cannibals, in case they are unaware. And most scaled fish are poo eaters. Most sharks will by experimenting bite almost anything in front of them. These are all verifiable things btw. Cattle eat, swallow, then later regurgitate their food to chew again, called cud. Um, let me thinks, Snakes….there is a whole can or worms to open up. To say it simply the Bible contradicts itself constantly, and is the work of man.
NO it’s not. The Hebrew Scriptures there at least are perfectly clear. Don’t mix wool and linen. Also don’t mix an ass and an ox when plowing. Don’t mix different kinds of crops when planting. Nothing to do with idolatry at all.
And the Scriptures are not giving health advice – to the contrary. The rabbis say we are commanded these commandments in order that we say ” It is fine to eat these things, but what can I do? My Creator has commanded me, and I must refrain.”
SO why aren’t you refraining. Surely that’s no more difficult than rfraining from having sexual relations with the kind of person you love – after all most people out there eat all kinds of food, there must be something kosher you like to eat.
pfffhahahHAHAHAHAHA
Too bad he is utterly fabulous… <3
LOLOL
AARGH! I can hear exactly how he would say this in my head! IT BURNS!
nice trick reference!
Congratulations to the happy couple!
Hear hear!!! George Takei and Brad, you ROCK!!
Kind of ironic tho, in the Star Trek TOS storyline, he is one of only 2 characters that have children (Captain Kirk the other). Whodathunkit?
F*** you, homophobes.
George is awesome! Congratulations to George & Brad!!!!!!!!!
That caption was stolen from a joke from Late Night with Conan O’Brien. Lame.
hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.
hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.
vxjpjevxvihtjgrvidyceotavjyvkzbescdhello
so what if he’s a homosexual, leave him alone!
In one of the episodes, you can actually hear him tell another character he’s gay as they walked off the screen (this was back when those kinds of things weren’t really accepted, he could’ve been fired). I’d have to talk to my Star Trek junkie friend again to find out the details, though… I think it was right after the other guy made a comment resembling “I’d bone that” about two attractive female aliens or something…